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Leading Learning Podcast

The Leading Learning Podcast is the show for people in the business of adult continuing education, professional development, and lifelong learning.
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Leading Learning Podcast
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Mar 12, 2024

We’re at an important point in time for lifelong learning. Much is shifting and unsettled in how humans live and work. That unsettledness means opportunity if your learning business is willing to grapple with the uncertainty and shape a vision for its role in the lifelong learning market.

In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-hosts Jeff Cobb and Celisa Steele look at the current lifelong learning landscape, near-future trends, and the implications—and opportunities—for learning businesses.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode400.

Mar 5, 2024

To realize their fundamental mission of developing and delivering learning products and services, learning businesses need revenue. Along with direct-to-learner fees for enrollments and registrations, sponsorship dollars are often a key part of that revenue equation.

In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-host Jeff Cobb talks with Bruce Rosenthal. Bruce helps organizations create sponsorships and partnerships that increase revenue and value for all stakeholders.

Jeff and Bruce talk about sponsorship versus partnership; the importance of thinking of “partner” as both noun and verb; why logos, visibility, and recognition are no longer a compelling value proposition; the growing emphasis on ROI and other trends in sponsorship; and COVID’s longtail impact on how sponsors engage.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode399.

Feb 27, 2024

Learning businesses care about creating effective learning. Doing so is at the heart of why learning businesses exist. But what happens when effective learning practices clash with what learners want or what they believe is effective?

That clash is precisely what Leading Learning Podcast co-hosts Jeff Cobb and Celisa Steele explore in this episode, which looks at desirable difficulties and the specific difficulty desirable difficulties pose for learning businesses.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode398.

Feb 20, 2024

Learning, education, and professional development are not the same. Similar, yes, interrelated even, but fundamentally and importantly different. If learning businesses take the parochial view of learning as merely education, they unnecessarily limit their impact and their possibilities.

In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-hosts Jeff Cobb and Celisa Steele explore the strategic importance of recognizing the differences between learning, education, and professional development. Learning encompasses informal experiences in addition to formal education and professional development, making it the broadest, more encompassing term.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode397.

Feb 14, 2024

Everybody loves a good story. It’s what draws us to good books, good movies, good podcasts. And we know that good stories can draw prospective learners to us and the learning experiences we offer. But telling a good story is harder than it looks, particularly in the realm of business, where often too much emphasis is put on numbers, data, and building a case rather than appealing to emotions, human connection, familiar patterns, and satisfying hooks. If you listen to this episode, you’ll get a mini class in how to tell a good story for your learning business.

Park Howell is the founder of the Business of Story. Park comes from the marketing world, where he ran his own advertising agency for 20 years. One of his big a-has is the and-but-therefore (ABT) agile narrative framework. Leading Learning Podcast co-host Celisa Steele talks with Park about the power of storytelling, its connection to how the human brain works, and how the ABT framework works at a conceptual and a practical level.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode396.

Feb 6, 2024

Digital credentials aren’t as valuable on their own as they are in an ecosystem that uses open standards to connect learners and employers and where relevant data about skills achieved, pathways to new roles, and the needs of the job market intersect.

In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-hosts Jeff Cobb and Celisa talk about standards-based digital credentials being at tipping point and the need for learning businesses to adopt them in order to adapt to what learners are coming to expect when receiving a credential.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode395.

Jan 30, 2024

Learning businesses rely on the revenue that comes from their educational offerings. That means learning business professionals have to know how to determine the best pricing—the best pricing for attracting and converting prospective customers, the best pricing for maintaining and maximizing revenue levels, and the best pricing for achieving strategic goals.

In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-hosts Jeff Cobb and Celisa Steele touch on three principles of pricing that can help: Prices prime perception, prices drive profit, and pricing is strategic.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode394.

Jan 23, 2024

With the release of ChatGPT in November 2022, artificial intelligence broke into the mainstream and became a more practical rather than theoretical topic than ever before. AI has the potential to lighten the existing load and to enable new activities for learning businesses, particularly in the realms of marketing and personalization.

Erica Salm Rench is the chief operating officer at rasa.io, which uses AI to send personalized newsletters to every recipient on an e-mail list. Before joining rasa, Erica worked in digital media and advertising at an agency, leading a team of content marketers, SEO specialists, Web developers, and online advertisers. She also worked at Tulane University in undergraduate admissions. Erica is passionate about designing effective marketing strategies, and she’s an avid student of AI.

In episode 393 of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-host Celisa Steele talks with Erica about the state of artificial intelligence, what’s on the horizon for AI, e-mail marketing, personalization, the importance of data, and the interaction and interplay of humans and AI to get work done well.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode393.

Jan 16, 2024

Just as taking time to look back and reflect is a good practice, so too is taking time to look ahead and plan.

In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-hosts Jeff Cobb and Celisa Steele share survey data about what learning businesses plan to focus on in 2024. You can use the data for quick benchmarking and to help you get clearer about your learning business’s priorities for the year ahead.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode392.

Jan 9, 2024

Reflection is a good practice, in life and in learning, especially for those working in and for learning businesses. But it’s all too easy to skip because taking time to reflect often isn’t as pressing and urgent as other things on the to-do list.

In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-hosts Jeff Cobb and Celisa Steele act as avatars and model doing the behavior they encourage others to engage in periodically as they reflect back on 2023.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode391.

Jan 2, 2024

Strategy and collaboration in open, loosely connected, complex networks require a different approach than the top-down planning that has long dominated organizational strategy-setting.

In this redux episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-host Celisa Steele talks with Ed Morrison, who pioneered Strategic Doing, an approach to strategy and collaboration in open, loosely connected, complex networks, and who co-authored Strategic Doing: Ten Skills for Agile Leadership. Celisa and Ed talk about what Strategic Doing is, some of the practical skills needed to do it well, and how learning businesses might apply it.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode390.

Dec 26, 2023

Giving and receiving feedback is harder than most people think. Learning business professionals need to take the time to study the art and science of feedback because of the critical role feedback plays in learning.

In this redux episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-hosts Jeff Cobb and Celisa Steele discuss how to give and receive feedback effectively, common misconceptions about feedback, and the tremendous impact feedback can have on learning.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode389.

Dec 19, 2023

Trust is fundamental in marketing. Without trustworthy marketing, products and services, no matter how excellent, will languish because today, by default, audiences doubt what marketers say. What this means is learning businesses need to do the work to collect and use evidence to back up their marketing claims.

In episode 388 of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-host Jeff Cobb talks with Melanie Deziel about exactly how to do that. Melanie is co-author of Prove It: Exactly How Modern Marketers Earn Trust.

Drawing on an elegant and simplifying framework from Prove It, Melanie and Jeff discuss five types of claims businesses often make—claims about convenience, comparability, commitment, connection, and competence—and three types of evidence that can back up those claims—corroboration, demonstration, and education.

The conversation is both thought-provoking and highly practical. If you’re looking to make sure your learners see you as a trustworthy source of content—and you should be looking to do that—then this episode is for you.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode388.

Dec 12, 2023

Marketing has arguably undergone more change in the last decade than any other field, which means learning businesses have to stay on top of their marketing game to make sure they reach the right learners and bring in the critical revenue that keeps them humming along.

In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, number 387, co-host Celisa Steele talks with Greg Stuart. Having spent over three decades in the field, Greg has contributed majorly to the transformation of marketing and media. He has served as CMO, CRO, or CEO at companies across the media landscape, and he currently is CEO of MMA Global, an international trade association for marketers focused on architecting the future of marketing. Greg also co-wrote the hugely influential book What Sticks: Why Most Advertising Fails and How to Guarantee Yours Succeeds.

Celisa and Greg talk about the shift from brand-based marketing to a focus on customer experience, the lack of clarity about what marketers do and the difficulty that creates in setting a strategy, the only three go-to-market strategies, multi-touch attribution, optimizing budget allocation, personalization, and the potential impact of generative AI on marketing.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode387.

Dec 5, 2023

What is capacity? The dictionary defines capacity as “the facility or power to produce, perform, or deploy.” But we dig deeper to look at what capacity means for learning businesses.

We explore three key facets of capacity (people, technology, and processes), look at capacity both as an assessment of current reality and a way to think about an ideal future state, and touch on how capacity plays out at three levels (individual, organization, and community).

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode386.

Nov 28, 2023

You’ve heard it said that culture eats strategy for lunch, and getting culture right is arguably even more important for learning businesses than for other types of organizations because the creation of a culture that truly embraces learning is so integrally tied to both what a learning business does internally and what it offers externally. This means learning business leaders need to give time and energy to fostering an awakened culture.

In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, number 385, co-host Jeff Cobb talks with Catherine Bell. Catherine is the founder and author of The Awakened Company, and she’s passionate about being of service to humanity and the planet. Catherine believes that, if we’re going to solve the problems that we face, we have to organize differently, and healthy culture will allow us to do that.

Catherine and Jeff talk about organizational culture, thriving relationships, viewing everyone as a leader, hiring and retention, the impact of events like the rise of generative AI and COVID on culture, the four I’s of transformational leadership, and more.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode385.

Nov 21, 2023

On average, we make 35,000 decisions a day. The sheer quantity means a process for making effective, successful decisions is a foundational aspect of leadership. But decision-making isn't often taught in school or on the job.

In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, number 384, co-host Celisa Steele talks with Jack Flaherty, author of The Decision Switch: 7 Principles of Successful Decision-Making, about his decision-making framework, decision-making as a process (not an event), the importance of self-reflection in getting better at decision-making, the role of empathy in decision-making, and the benefits of incorporating an effective decision-making process into an organization's culture.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode384.

Nov 14, 2023

Learning styles are a pernicious myth, but learner preferences are a reality that learning businesses disregard at their own risk. Learning businesses need to balance using effective learning strategies and approaches with giving learners want they want.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode383.

Nov 7, 2023

Learning businesses that look for results strive to change behavior. They want to develop and deliver learning experiences that support learners in doing something new or doing something better. But designing for behavior change requires a specific focus and understanding of how learning works. Luckily, Leading Learning Podcast co-host Jeff Cobb gets to talk with an expert in designing learning for behavior change in this episode, number 382.

Julie Dirksen is a learning strategist who has spent much of her career helping people with domain expertise understand and apply core principles of instructional design so they can deliver better learning. Julie is the author of Design for How People Learn and, more recently, Talk to the Elephant: Design Learning for Behavior Change. Julie and Jeff talk about behavioral science, brain evolution, interrupting automatic patterns, conscious and automatic motivation, implementation intentions, and more.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode382.

Oct 31, 2023

This episode will take 30+ minutes to listen to—or less if you like to speed up the audio. But, however long it takes you to get through the episode, we hope you’ll take away at least three things you can use in your learning business. Find a sheet of paper or open a note-taking app, and write down the numbers 1, 2, and 3. As you listen to this conversation with Dr. Brian McGowan, fill in a takeaway beside each number.

Brian has studied clinician learning for the last 20 years, and, for the last 14, he has specifically focused on the intersection of behavioral science and learning science. Brian and Leading Learning Podcast co-host Celisa Steele talk about what Malcolm Knowles got wrong about adult learners, practical ways to work with less than perfect learners and less than perfect learning designers, working out loud, what the long-term impact of COVID might be on learning, the uses of generative AI to support learning businesses, podcasting as an efficient way to share research and ideas, and more.

As you listen, remember to go back to your sheet of paper or app and take note of at least three takeaways.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode381.

Oct 24, 2023

The average learning business does a lot. Add what a learning business could or should do to what it already does, and the list of possibilities is overwhelming. This episode of the Leading Learning Podcast focuses on four often-overlooked areas where we think investing more time and energy will pay off for learning businesses: supporting subject matter experts, providing practice opportunities, evaluating impact, and telling a coherent value story.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode380.

Oct 17, 2023

Developing effective learning products should be a central goal of all learning businesses, and one way to gauge effectiveness and then refine learning products is with learner surveys. In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, co-host Jeff Cobb talks with a true expert in the domains of learner surveys and learning effectiveness: Dr. Will Thalheimer. Will is a consultant, speaker, researcher, and author of Performance-Focused Learner Surveys: Using Distinctive Questioning to Get Actionable Data and Guide Learning Effectiveness.

Jeff and Will talk about four pillars of training effectiveness, learner surveys and smile sheets, Will’s Learning Transfer Evaluation Model (LTEM), distinctive questioning for evaluations, the role of evaluation in making learning products more effective, ways to get more learners to respond to surveys, and the important role of translating research into practical recommendations.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode379.

Oct 10, 2023

Learning businesses should base their design choices on evidence-based practices. But keeping up with the latest research takes time and energy that many learning business professionals simply don’t have. Luckily, people like Jane Bozarth exist to help bridge the gap between academic research and the implications for the design and delivery of learning experiences.

Jane Bozarth has spent many years as a trainer, a facilitator, and an e-learning designer, and she currently serves as the director of research at the Learning Guild, where she puts out monthly reports.

In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, Jane talks with co-host Celisa Steele about learning styles and other myths, evidence-based alternatives to popular misconceptions, the growth mindset and whether learning businesses can help alter learners’ perceptions, and what artificial intelligence does well and where it falls short.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode378.

Oct 3, 2023

Practice is a powerful tool for learning, and, when you stop to look at what you do on a daily or weekly basis, you’ll see how common and natural practice is in so many realms. But too often learning businesses don’t incorporate practice into their portfolio of offerings.

In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, we focus on practice, but, rather than take a learning science-backed view, we take a look at a specific, real-world example of practice. Co-host Celisa Steele interviews co-host Jeff Cobb about a practice project he's working on.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode377.

Sep 26, 2023

Soft skills training is a different beast than technical training, and Manny Avramidis, president and CEO of the American Management Association, knows this well. AMA provides management development and educational services to individuals and organizations in over 100 countries, with a primary focus on soft skills.

In this episode of the Leading Learning Podcast, Manny talks with co-host Jeff Cobb about how the market for professional development and education has changed and matured during his quarter century working at AMA, how AMA places emphasis on the application of the skills and knowledge it teaches, and how it can say that a very impressive 98 percent of people who have taken AMA training confirm that they apply what they've learned.

Manny also touches on his belief that a leader's success should be measured by the intelligence of their team, the value of leveraging partnerships, and why AMA and Tagoras (the parent company of Leading Learning) formed a partnership to allow membership organizations to get their learners access to AMAs library of 70 plus e-learning modules. For leaders of learning businesses and aspiring leaders, there's lots to glean from this conversation.

Show notes and a downloadable transcript are available at https://www.leadinglearning.com/episode376.

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